Podcast Season 2 Ep. 6 - Decolonising and Indigenising Teaching Resources with Leona Prince

Leona Prince is an award winning teacher, who has recently been appointed to Director of Instruction-Indigenous Education in SD91 - Nechako Lakes. Leona Prince is a Dakelh woman from the Lake Babine Nation and Nak'azdli and belongs to the Likh Tsa Mis Yu (Beaver) Clan. She is a descendant of Stiche and Chief Kwah. She is the mother of three amazing children and is a passionate, award-winning educator.

Leona has been an educator for sixteen years in northern B.C. having served as District Principal of Aboriginal Education for the past four years. In her current role as Director of Instruction-Indigenous Education, Leona helps improve the education and lives of learners through Truth and Reconciliation and Calls to Action.

She is also author of two children’s books A Dance Through the Seasons about perseverance, recognizing your own gifts, learning with patience, and living your purpose Her latest book is Be a Good Ancestor.

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Podcast Transcript

Hi, my name is Blue. And I'm the host of this podcast, the 21st-Century Teacher with Live It Earth. And my job is to ensure that our teachers and students get the most out of our programs. This new podcast series is just one of the ways I'm going to be supporting our community of educators, with a monthly conversation with a special guest educator discussing a different aspect of 21st century teaching and learning.

A reminder that if you are a teacher in British Columbia, thanks to Focused Education Resources, you now have access to our hybrid learning library. If you would like more information about our blended-learning programs please visit our website liveit.earth.

I am grateful to be living and working in Nelson, British Columbia, where this podcast is recorded. I would like to acknowledge our ancestors and the keepers of the land that have walked before us. This is the traditional territory of a number of first nations groups, traditional territory of the Sinix(t), the Syilx and the K’tanaxa peoples as well; this area is home to the Metis and many diverse Indigenous groups.

Today I'm talking with Leona Prince, an award winning teacher who has recently been appointed to Director of Instruction Indigenous Education in SD 91 (Nechako Lakes). Leona has been an educator for 16 years in northern BC, having served as District Principal of Aboriginal Education for the past four years. Her role will help improve the education and lives of learners through Truth and Reconciliation, and the calls to action. She is also author of two children's books. She also earned an Inspire Award for Educational Leadership at the 2018 Guiding the Journey Educator Awards. 

Leona, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Thank you for inviting me. Before I begin I'd like to do my own land acknowledgment and then tell you a little bit about myself so we can begin in a good way. 

Wagoos be winic'l'ehn gen xwmeØkweyem, Skwxwú7mesh, tl'a selilwetat kiy dzeen de-yinguht whiggisisy' in'. Niwh-tside' nee hiba yinta. Mesiyh. We respectfully acknowledge the land we are on today, the land of the Museum, Squamish and Tsleil-Wauthuth peoples. This is the land of their Ancestors. Thank you. 

Siy Leona Prince sadnee. Lts'umusyoo tia Likh Tsa Mis Yu habilh dees zilh. Lusilyoo haba dza gel dzut. Sne' Joyce Prince tia Sbeb Gordon Barfoot habatnee. Nak'azdli Whut'en ts'ave awh Nedut'en 'eet wist'iyh. Stiche t'a kwe enne netsoo whudilhdzulhne.

Hello, my name is Leona Prince. I belong to the Beaver Clan and my father clan is Frog. My mother and father are Joyce Prince and Gordon Barfoot. We are members of the Lake Babine Nation and come from Nak'azdli Whut'en. Our Ancestors are Stiche and Chief Kwah.

That's great. Thank you so much for that introduction. So let's dive into the first question I have for you. So you're working within a recently created role in SD 91, which is Director of Instruction Indigenous Education. And I'm wondering what is the significance in SD 91 for the shift in terms of the language from “Aboriginal Education” to “Indigenous”?

You think that would be like a really easy and natural shift, but it's been a bit of a back and forth and there's a history behind it. And so people are widely using the term “Indigenous” in Canada for the First Nations Metis people and Inuit people of our country. The legal definition for us is still “Aboriginal” at the governmental level. And I wanted to be mindful that the children that I'm specifically tasked to serve within our territories here within our schools, our First Nations Metis, and Inuit children, and so, historically, Indigenous folks have been those folks around the world. And if I thought about it, you know, five years ago, I would have thought about the Hawaiians, the Maori, the Aboriginal people of Australia, the Samurai, I knew, like all these world Indigenous folks, and that's really where that definition lived. There has been a slow and steady shift. The reason why Aboriginal, and folks are discarding that title is if you look at the meaning of the word - Aboriginal, not original, an abnormal, not normal. And so people draw those parallels, my focus was on the legal definition. But, you know, as in all things, it has to shift and move in a more inclusive term, a more politically correct term now is “Indigenous”. Interestingly enough, though, we were in a meeting, it was with our Indigenous Education Council, formerly our First Nations Education Council, and we were talking about this, there was some internal pressures from within our systems, educators who wanted to be great allies, and we're like, why don't you shift to Indigenous, this seems wrong. And I brought it up to this table, who are Indigenous leaders within our 14 First Nations and our school staff, all together in this meeting. And it was actually one of our former leaders, Monty Palmantier. And he's a great mentor of mine. And he said, “well, it doesn't matter what other people call us, it matters what we call ourselves. And historically, they've always changed the name of what they call us”. And in these territories, we're Nadot'en, Nak'azdli Whu'ten, we're Ts'il Kaz people, you know, and we're Wetʼsuwetʼen . And so it's our titles for ourselves. We’re separated from those political definitions of who we are. And so there never was the pressure internally to make that shift. But there has to be that natural shift, you know. There wasn't in the title, it didn't make a difference, but we thought, okay, if we're gonna make the change, we'll make the change now that I'm, I'm taking on a director's role. And so that's really it. And in that meeting, the most poignant thing that was said was, my colleague and friend Dr. Dustin Louis said, of all the problems that we face, and the issues that we face here in Indigenous communities, taxonomy is the least of them, and so not high on the priorities. But I get where people are coming from. And so we just naturally made that shift.

Yeah, I had no idea. It’s interesting, yeah, this is a new role in SD 91. And I'm interested, and will ask you about other districts and what they may or may not be doing, and why this role is so important for SD 91. So what are the some of the key, what’s the purpose of this new role? What's different about this role to the last role that you had? 

Well, our district is making the statement that this work is the work of the Director, that's the level of responsibility, because it has to do different levels in different names, whether you're a District Principal or Director, it has to do with your responsibility. And there's an incredible amount of responsibility that exists in these roles, your liaising with 14 First Nations, the Provincial and Federal Government, all the schools in your district. So there's a ton of work involved. And it may not seem like it, but there's very few positions within our organization with that much political responsibility and social responsibility to not only uphold your own community, within the education system, but you're actually serving all these different very distinct nations.

Right, that makes sense. And so what do you see, what I find interesting is that every district operates a little bit differently in general. And so when it comes to this kind of work, you know, within your community in the 14 different nations, how can you compare it in any way to other districts, or you very much as the as SD 91, flying the flag in terms of, you know, acknowledging this role in the way that you are?

No, there, there has been other Directors of Indigenous Education throughout the province. And the reason, I can't speak for other districts, but what I see is the number of like, First Nations that will have a factor. Like I said, we have 14 First Nations within this district. And I always remind people of that, because there's some districts where there are no First Nations who are located in the geographic boundaries of their district. Or we have very Metro districts down in the Lower Mainland, where you'll have relationships with one or two, but you also have huge relationships with friendship centers, and all those other things. And so, you also may have a very big student population, but a very small First Nations or Indigenous population. And so the role varies throughout the province. And that's why I see so many varied roles. We have so many First Nations here. So many local education agreements. We have a vested interest in all these as communities, not to say that my partners and my colleagues don't. But there's different contexts. So I think that requires a different level of responsibility in different positions. Although I do think, with the complexity and increasing complexity of this work, I'd be remiss not to say that I think that this should be a Director's role. I think that with the focus on Indigenous Education, the policies and the directives coming from the Ministry, there is always the pressure to do this work and not just external pressure, but an internal pressure, and a sense of urgency for this work. We have a lot to cover, and our children can't wait for that. And so I think those districts, like my own, who have said, this is a Directors role, are definitely holding up that work and showing the importance because we live in, this is a Western system, and how do you show importance, it's like our naming ceremonies in our own. If you get a bigger name, it's more responsibility. And it's actually acknowledging the level of responsibility for that title or that name.

And so how is your role supporting the Indigenisation of the BC curriculum?

Hmm. It's funny, because it's twofold, I find that my work primarily is decolonization. Indigenisation is how it looks, and I feel like decolonization is how it feels. And so, in order to do this work in order to get to where we're indigenizing, the system, I think both have value. But the work that we've been concentrating on is decolonization, which is changing mindset, shifting mindset. Because if we don't do that work first or at least alongside indigenisation, then the indigenisation piece becomes performative. And we never want to just seem performative in this work, it actually has to be done at a very deep level and be meaningful. In order to move things forward in our reconciliatory efforts. I find that there has to be a balance in that as well. And indigenisation can be very interesting. It depends what you're talking about in terms of indigenisation because of its language. the reason I also don't focus on that, because I believe that language revitalization, and all those things need to be community driven. It is one of those things that is so sensitive, things that are being rebuilt, and people are doing brilliantly in this province, nations are doing such great jobs, and then there's some nations we're just starting that journey. And so, in terms of indigenisation, I take the lead from First Nations even though I am from my living in my own community, right here in Burns Lake, I'm here on the traditional unseeded territories of so Pasco Burns Lake, but my band is Lake Babine, which is just literally on their neighbors here in my space. So even though I have that connection to community, I feel like that directive has to come from community, elders, knowledge holders, hereditary Chiefs need to lead the way in terms of indigenisation so I do a lot of work in decolonization because that we can do together as a system.

In terms of education, is there a way that you could sum that up for any teachers that are listening, that are still wondering, like, what does that mean, in my classroom? Like, is there any way you could kind of like, in a nutshell, explain what that is?

I think it's, I've always tried to assist educators in how they do Indigenous Education, not the what. So that's the I feel like the decolonization is the how, and the indigenization is the what. Sometimes I can focus too much on the how, and people will tell me that, and they need a little bit of the wet so they can feel they can, it can look successful, and not just feel successful. I do understand the perfect relationship between those two. And so I'll give you an example. So we've been looking at land based education. I give them the perspectives, the Indigenous perspectives. Not do this lesson. so it looks Indigenous. But how can we use indigenous principles as a foundation to build that curriculum on? Where as historically what we've done is here's the curriculum, here's how you can fit the Indigenous stuff in it. No, no, no. What I'm proposing in, in our reconciliatory effort is that we hold up all worldviews. And one way that we hold it up, is use our teachings as a foundation to build all those other perspectives on and see how they can coexist. And so there's that piece. And then sometimes I just need to give the teachers a project that looks Aboriginal. So the language component that goes with that, or the history or the resource, and so they can, it's tangible, right? Because decolonization can be very theoretical, because it has to do with your metacognition, you're thinking about your thinking, in terms of Indigenous education. Whereas indigenization is very practical, hands on, tangible and achievable. So there definitely has to be a balance, but that's how I go about it, is I give the resources, but I also give the why.

I love that. Thanks for clarifying that, too. Now I have, I have kids, myself, I have young kids, a nine year old, a three year old and a six month old baby who's not quite ready for children's books yet. But I do know, you're a children's author. So I would love for you to share a little bit about your books, a Dance Through the Seasons, and a title, which I love. And I mentioned to you before we started recording, which is Being a Good Ancestor. I really love that. So could you tell us a little bit about the books? And then yeah, anything else that's coming up any new books that might be in your mind?

Yeah, several. These two books were really inspired. And, you know, it's like this ancestral knowledge, that just comes to myself in my first book, or my sister and myself in the second book, like it's this ancestral knowledge that we're just passing on, and sharing. And so in the first book, A Dance Through the Seasons is about, it's very autobiographical as well. It's about my journey and leadership through this character, young woman, and being guided through that and that leadership, and learning takes patience and time, which is one of our First Peoples Principles in this province. One thing that I always have at the back of my mind, when I'm helping others learn, learning myself, planning for learning, like, it's always patience and time. And really, what that book speaks to is about perseverance as well, in your own journey. And following a path, following a dream and seeing it through, and the lessons that you learn along the way. And kids, there's a lot of fun in it as well, if you're younger children. Carla Joseph is the illustrator. And she illustrated both books. And in the first one, there's hidden turtles. So there's, there's a bit of fun. It's chock full of the seasonal rounds activities of my people. And so there's a little bit of traditional knowledge that's woven throughout the text, just to give you a sense of how important the land is. And so there's that there's so many themes, underscoring that leadership sort of story that happens in that book. That really, you could use in many, many areas of our curriculum, which is exciting. So that there's that lovely story about young woman and how, you know, she finally found a way to lead but it happened after a tremendous amount of learning and growth. 

And then Be A Good Ancestor, which was released in May of this year is just exciting. It's so exciting. It's a message. I feel like for everybody, I feel like an adult can pick up this picture book, read the stanzas and understand how the smallest actions can create the biggest change. The smallest element of nature has huge impacts on who we are as a world. And so the very first stanza “raindrops become puddles, puddles become streams, streams become rivers, rivers become life”. Raindrops are life, right? The second stanza is that “seeds become oxygen” talking about our forests. So it goes through these three areas of connection to land, connection to others, connection to self. And it talks about the connectedness and interrelatedness of all of us and our responsibility for that. And when you are being a good ancestor being a good living ancestor, you're thoughtful and mindful of those every single day. And so it is a book that's definitely relevant right now, a message that is relevant. And I'm so happy that children are picking it up and hearing this message and hopefully internalizing it, because our world needs a little bit of saving right now.

Yeah, for sure. And so another question I have. And this relates to sort of my background as well, which I think, yeah, there's a connection here. But as I was in outdoor education for many years, and so for me, connecting kids to nature, to their surroundings, is such a big part of them becoming a good citizen. So my question is, how important do you think that is the connection to the land when it comes to Indigenous learning perspectives?

Oh, my goodness. So you asked about future projects, right. I've been having and an amazing mentor in my life is Monique Graysmith. I have nothing but so much respect and so many kind words that I can say about her. But she truly is a matriarch. And she told me this once that, you know, if you're meant to do something, first you’ll get pebbles, like just being thrown at you, you know, hey, you should do this, you should do this. And then rocks, you know, and then boulders and then you know, house falls on you because you need to do this, right? And so funny that you bring that up, and it's just another one of those creator whispers saying, Okay, this is the right thing. I know being in education, I know a lot about place based education, like taking the classroom exactly what you said, out on the land. And naturally, through my connection to place, my connection to my people, and all of our practices on the land, those seasonal rounds from a Dance Through the Seasons, I know what it means to have a land based education. And I think a lot of educators want to do the land based piece, not just everyone, take your kids outside, first and foremost, if that's your entry point into an outdoor educational experience. What I've been realizing is that people want to do the land based thing, so again, use Indigenous worldviews and perspectives as a foundation for what they're doing in their classrooms, or even personally, but don't know how to access that. And so I realized really quickly that, you know, we have those answers, but we have them because we were raised in that way. And so how do I translate, you know, our rural views and perspectives in a way that will benefit teachers so they can have that deep connection that we feel as stewards of these territories? And so yes, to answer your question, I think it's incredibly important that more and more no matter across the subjects, people need to get outside to do that learning and to connect to the land in a real way. And engage all of your senses in doing that. And so a project that I'm working on right now, is to create a guide for educators based in our own local, Dakelh land principles, and teaching those principles. So that educators can use that information in their classrooms and sort of do it with the classroom, but using those fundamental principles. Like I keep saying, go back to the principles because they're there, and we can build everything on top of them.

Yeah, that leads me into my last question that I have, which was like, how can a classroom teacher facilitate more of this, and any ideas that you can share or success stories you've heard, but it sounds like you are curating a booklet of ideas that can be shared?

Yes. And one of the, I don't want to give too much away, but at the same time, I don't want to miss an opportunity, is that one of the biggest barriers, and I had this teaching this summer, so we're not born all knowing as Indigenous folks, we have to do our own learning. And one of my language mentors is Guy Prince, who yes is my cousin. He is a fierce advocate for language and language revitalization for the Dakelh people specifically Nak'azdli. And so he was talking about language and the spirit of our language. And I made this like, I was so mind blown. He talked about how the English language is, everything's in relation to the human experience. Everything is. Whereas in our language, and I'll give this teaching, it's it's going to be a whole preview of this book and how I'm going to get people on the land in a way and appreciate it the way that we do, is he said, he gave us example, in depth so that the word for the surface of the lake is the same word for ceiling. Because we're not at the center of that language, our surface is someone else's ceiling. So why would those two words be different? So that ceiling for the aquatic life is the surface of the water, it takes us out of the center of that word. Whereas everything in English is kind of centered on the human experience. We separate ourselves from them, and he also had this teaching that I just read a quote from Guy as well, where there is no word we don't call our animals it. It is they. Because, again, it's not in relation. We're the living, there’s no its. No, we're all theys. So there's an equal playing field and again, decentering ourselves in language, because the English language will say “it”, you know? And how does that dishonor other living things that makes you more important, there's a hierarchy built into the language that doesn't exist within our culture.

Oh, interesting. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that.

I hadn't, or then either. I'm like, this is why we are so connected to the land. Because if my surface is a fish’s ceiling, then I'm not central to that idea of the surface of the water. I'm not, and it takes ego out of our total experience of life.

Actually, because you mentioned language, I'm interested. So in your district, how big a part of education for say elementary school kids is, the language is the local language?

You know, I'm really proud of the work of our communities, and their engagement in our schools, we are having more and more language teachers every year, and our kids are better for it. I think, even if you go home, and you're like, why are we learning this language, I think you can learn any language and you're just a more wholesome human being, because you're thinking in different perspectives. In this territory, we have amazing teachers who are so passionate about their work. And they they are bringing the culture, language and history because and the land, all of those things like we don't just teach language, it's definitely Indigenous ways of knowing, being and doing because you can't pull those things apart. And so our teachers are doing amazing work with our kids to give them those multiple perspectives, in the local dialects. We have 14 dialects in in this area, that speak Dakelh, Naroden and Wet'suwet'en. And so you're thinking three languages, 14 dialects, and and that's just in this, you know, 70,000 square kilometers, that is the School District region. But, you know, we have all our nations there. And so we, we still want to be led by the nations. And you know, it's funny that you asked that, because I just had a conversation. There's some interesting developments where the nations are taking up this work, and we're being invited along which is where what our place is. And so I'm excited for the future of language development. I myself, I'm in the Naroden Proficiency Diploma program right now. I'm just finishing up my first year. It's, you know, has gone year round. We have three instructors, one, Dr. Louise le, cert, Rosalie McDonald, and Beatrice Michelle, there are three instructors. They're all from, they're all Naroden from the Lake Babine Nation. And they're teaching two cohorts. And there's a mix of Naroden, Wet'suwet'en and Dakelh folks in there, but primarily Naroden, then Wet'suwet'en with a few Dakelh folks who have been in these two cohorts for language revitalization. And so just seeing that process from within and positioning myself as a learner has been incredibly empowering, but it also shows me the need for us to support that within our education system.

That's great. Well, thank you so much for sharing. Yeah, everything that you have today. I really appreciate you taking the time.

It's so nice to meet you. Yeah. Mesiyh.

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