Podcast Season 1 Ep. 9 - Technology & the Shifting Role of the Teacher with Chris Kennedy

Chris Kennedy is the Superintendent of West Vancouver Schools and one of the most progressive voices in BC education. He was recently named as one of the Top 10 Canadian Newsmakers in Educational Technology and has been featured by Maclean’s Magazine as one of the “100 Young Canadians to Watch” and his work has been featured in various local and national publications.

As a writer and presenter on personalized learning and infusing technology in the classroom Chris balances his professional passions with life as the father of four children. Chris has also taught secondary English and Social Studies, and been both an elementary and secondary school principal.

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Podcast Transcript

Hi, my name is Blue. And I'm the host of this new podcast, the 21st-Century Teacher with Live It Earth. And my job is to ensure that our teachers and students get the most out of our programs. This new podcast series is just one of the ways I'm going to be supporting our community of educators with a monthly conversation with a special guest educator discussing a different aspect of 21st-century teaching and learning.

Today, I'm talking to Chris Kennedy, the Superintendent of West Vancouver Schools. He is one of the most progressive voices in BC Education that has been featured by Maclean's Magazine as one of the 100 Young Canadians to Watch, and his work has been featured in various local and national publications. He was recently named as one of the top 10 Canadian News-makers in Educational Technology. Chris has also taught English and Social Studies and been both an elementary and secondary school principal. Chris is a writer and presenter on personalized learning and infusing technology in the classroom. Chris balances his professional passions with life as the father of four young children.

So Chris, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today, I really appreciate you taking the time. 

Well, I appreciate being here and am looking forward to the conversation. 

So I'm going to jump straight in. And this sort of harks back to a talk you've done in the past, but I'm really interested to hear for you, what does mission accomplished look like in terms of digital access, and use for schools?

Yeah, it's an interesting topic to think about mission accomplished. Because I think many of the goals that we set out 10 or 15 years ago, we've actually been able to the goal, their goals of can we get Wi Fi into schools, can we get kids with their own devices? Can we kind of get kids one to one, maybe from grade four? And, on the technical side, I think we've done much of that. And, during COVID, I think that even amplified that we saw kids getting devices, we saw kids working online, you know. But that's really just part of it, part of the mission was to get kids with the stuff. But the real goal was actually what are we going to do with the stuff and you know, doing things that would not be possible if the technology wasn't there, or doing things that are not just about consuming, but about creating? And so I think on the getting stuff into people's hands, we've been really well mission accomplished. But now we’ve got this whole other piece that we got to work on, which is the kinds of ways that we're using the tools that the kids have access to now. You know, are we getting them to create stuff? I'm really interested and curious about things like robotics right now, kids building robots, in that space in technology, I'm interested in NFT's. We're seeing that whole wave happening right now, and is there a way to bring those into schools? And so, you know, I think the danger of saying mission accomplished is you think you get to an endpoint, but you just get to a new beginning point, and I think that's where we're at.

Well, that's an interesting point, and I'd just like to touch on this briefly, but we're both parents. So now we've got access in school, and now we've got access in the home. Is there any…are we seeing any of the kids getting burnt out? Or, you know, just in terms of like any addiction around screen time? 

I think we all need to be conscious of screen time as teachers and as parents. I guess I use the same advice with our teachers as I use with a parent, is to use it when it's purposeful. And I actually see the use of screens in schools far better now than five years ago. Because what I saw five years ago, we put every kid in front of a screen for an hour and they did computers. Now what we do is they access the tools when they need them for the work. And when I go into a classroom, I like to describe it as a messy classroom. It's not all kids with their laptops open. There's three kids working around one laptop, there's other kids who have paper and they don't have any laptop open. There's a kid who likes to work quietly by himself. He's got his own laptop, he's working one to one. And so the modern classroom isn't a classroom where every kid is on a computer. The modern classroom is where every kid has access to technology. And I would actually argue that I think that we might have little less screen time in schools now than five years ago, while we have more kids with technology, because we become more purposeful, and we don't use it. We don't use it because we have it. We use it because we need it.

Right? Yeah. No, it makes sense. I mean, it's such an important tool we have to get used to and in saying that for the teachers, is this a lot for them to take on? What are some of the challenges that you've been hearing from teachers, because kids learn very quickly. And I've noticed with my eight and a half year old, it's incredible how fast they can learn to navigate the screen. Now, some of the older teachers that have been in the system for a long time, are there challenges that we're seeing for them?

So I would say, up until COVID, I knew there was a generational gap for sure. But interesting, because during COVID, we all had to change all our use of technology in all aspects of our life, it was like you immediately had to figure out how you're going to use Zoom in your own life. And so then you can apply that in your work life and all those other pieces. And so I think, I actually think the digital skills, the overall digital skills of all the adults in our society, and all the adults working with our kids has actually gone up. And there's a new baseline kind of coming through, out of COVID from where we were before. And so I'm interested to see what the next couple years bring, because I think our adults in our schools now have a far greater comfort level with technology, because they've had to live in such a digital way over the last two years. 

Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, there's certainly some pluses about the pandemic, throwing us into the future, as it has. Some of the regular feedback that we've been getting from teachers in BC, they're generally overwhelmed by the number of online resources. How do we support the teachers in that way? Oh what does that next step look like, so much content? 

Yeah, I think you're right. We went from scarcity. And in the book era, like, there was only the one book or the two books that you had to use in any given content area. And now it's…overwhelming. And so where do you start? So what I think smart jurisdictions do, whether that's at the school level, or the school district, or even a provincial level is that they select a few and support people through those. You know, in some ways, you can't support everything. And so you have to find a few good resources, and then try to support everyone to use them. Because I think one of the things about using digital resources, it's really valuable when multiple people use it, and they can connect together, and you sort of build networks of people that are using some of the same digital resources or digital tools. In some ways, I argue, at the end, some of them are no better than each other, I just need you to pick one. Because in some ways, you know that we need some common places for us to have conversations. And there's this whole place around personalization. And individualization is super important in some aspects. But there needs to be also a common piece, you know, something that unites us, everybody like schools and school systems and classes. It can't just be free for all. And that's just asking way too much of the teacher not only to be the instructor, but also to be the Content Curator, every single day for every single course. 

So from what you're hearing as a Superintendent in the West Vancouver District, are teachers utilizing technology in the classrooms right now? What could be some of the biggest challenges or limitations that you've been hearing about? 

So yes, I think the issue of where we kind of started, the issue of getting access, we've largely solved it. It's not universal, there's still issues of equity that are a concern, anytime, around that. I think it is finding resources that are aligned to curriculum. Like you know, so I'm trying to teach about x in the social studies in grade six, but I'm finding resources that teach a little bit of that, but they teach a little bit of something else. And teachers want to do the right thing. So they want to find resources that are aligned to curriculum. And sometimes, when you're just out hunting resources, it's hard to find something that's tightly aligned. And so I look to those that are providing resources, those that can make the alignment easier, make it way easier for the rest of us think in the system. That they can show here's what grade seven science looks like, and here's how our resource aligns to those objectives. 

So you mentioned personalized learning already. So what is your vision for the future of personalized learning and infusing technology into the classroom? 

Yeah, so I see it as sort of this…at a younger age, I feel there's a greater common. So when you're in grade one and two, the common you have is far greater and there's less individualized or personalized pieces. As you go through the grades, you release the student to make more choices over what they learn, how they learn it, where they learn it. So, you know, as kids move into high school, they might take an online course to supplement their in-person courses. Or we might give, you know, I love what some schools are doing about creating some flexible time during the week where they can make choices. They don't need an hour and 30 minutes in each course, in some courses, they need two hours and some they need 45 minutes. And so they can spend more time or less time with individual teachers based on where their needs are. And then I also see what they make, I'm impressed by where they get more choices over how they show their learning. And so some kids make, you know, a makeup project, and some kids write an essay, and some kids write a musical composition. And the more ways that we can have kids have multiple ways to show how they learn, I think that's all part of this personalization. I think one of the things about personalization is, it's important to not say that means that every kid does his own thing, and that you can learn about hockey, and I can learn about the saxophone and the person next to us can learn about bees, and we're all gonna graduate like there is a common for all of us. But then there is within that, there is some choice and flexibility. 

Is it just creating more? Is it inevitably creating more work for the teacher? Is technology allowing us to find some more efficient ways of reporting, and curating all of this stuff? 

Yeah. And so the one example I see a lot is just around some of the math resources around personalization, where you know, that sort of gamification, where kids can advance, where they can get extra support at one level before advancing to the next level. Others can move quickly through, so that you can have kids using technology and some of the interesting programs out there, and they can move at their own pace. So you can have, you know, we always talk about why you have differentiation in a classroom and kids moving at their own level. And that's so hard for a teacher who has, you might have four groups, but has like 25 groups, because every kid is kind of at a different spot. But technology can sometimes allow you to have a little bit more of that differentiation in the tools. I think that whole, you know, the whole world of AI and all that, I think we are just still in the early stages of how that will impact our classroom, and how how we will be able to use technology to adapt to each learner more easily than we do now. I feel like we're still early days on that part with technology, though. 

So I wonder is there anything that sticks out for you, in some of the innovative ways that teachers have been implementing technology? Are there any really particularly great software that you've heard about or seen and use? 

Yeah, just before we got on this podcast, we were talking a little about robotics. And so I wanted to take a minute on that one. Because, here's what I like about that, that thinking about technology a little differently. But what I like about that is it's kids making and building and creating things. And so they are, and there is a competitive element, sometimes around robotics, around competing, they play in these competitions, and vex robots and games with each other. But I really like that at different ages, it really works all the way through. It's also real world. And so you're actually learning skills that are the kinds of problem solving, you know, those critical thinking, problem solving skills that we want for kids. And so I'm really interested in that as a sort of broad topic. When I think about resources, I use some of the math ones that I've seen, that I've been interested in, or Our Dream Box and Mathletics are two of the ones that I've seen math, AI, Excel, these are kind of ones that help with that whole differentiation of learners. And I'm just beginning to see some of the companies like Discovery, which is beginning to come into Canada. One of the challenges we have in Canada is that we often are bombarded by American resources. And we need really, we need localized resources, but it's expensive to create localized resources. It's kind of the circle of this challenge that we're in. And so a lot of the below digital resources I referenced are kind of American. You know, I'd love to see us having some more robust digital resources in the Socials and Sciences, which really need to be looked at a lot different than American resources. 

No, absolutely. You know, something that pops into my mind as you're talking about the robotics and so many interesting things happening in technology, are the teachers becoming more facilitators now? How is the role of the teacher in the classroom shifting? 

The role of the teachers is definitely shifting, and it's creating this interesting dynamic that some of the teachers who were the best teachers 20 years ago, because they had control of the room, they're the ones who are struggling the most right now, in this new way. Because the new classroom, all the classrooms I go into, there's not a sense of the teacher in control of the room. As you know, the teacher, the masterful teacher of today, has got learning happening in a bunch of different ways in the classroom and is facilitating it and is supporting it and knows which kids need extra help. But they're not standing at the front of the room as the owners of the content anymore. Those were the best teachers, it used to be the ones who knew the most content. And then content became free for all of us. And now the best teachers are the ones that can help you make sense of the content, which is a different skill set. 

Yeah, it's very much like a dynamic, fluid kind of process. And also encouraging critical thinking. So it seems that what I'm hearing is that it's a challenging, but exciting time as a teacher, and any teachers can have to, you know, be thinking fast on their feet, in order to make sure they're making the most of the resources.

Yeah, and I think that teachers have to worry less about knowing all of the content. I know, as a new teacher, I was always nervous that I would not know a piece of content, and a student would know it. And all of a sudden, I was no longer the expert in the room. And so like that, that's how so many of us, I think, went through teacher training with that, because it was all about being the content expert, but when the focus is about you're the person that helps the kids make sense of the content, that's just really different. 

The Pro-D days, are they shifting their training courses and things, keeping up with the needs of the teachers to keep them current? 

I think, each one of those, you never have enough training, that you're always looking for more support, but just how we support teachers is different to that. So the old way was, you would go to a day of training, and you'd come back and implement that. But in the digital world, you kind of, it's more just in time, like, “Hey, I'm teaching this tomorrow, I went and found a seven minute YouTube video where I learned a little bit about it or learn the strategy I'm gonna implement what I find”. You know, it doesn't fit well with our model or thinking of teaching, but just like every other aspect of our life, like the old way, “I learned something at the workshop, and then I'll apply it in my lessons over the next month”. That's kind of an old thing, the new way is, “I'm gonna learn something today, and I'm gonna apply it tomorrow, and I don't need to go for six hours, I maybe need 10 minutes, and then I'm going to try it. And then you know, it will work. I'll learn from it, and they'll refine it. I'll try it again”. I know you've spoken to Judy and Linda about the code inquiry, that whole teacher mindset of have a hunch? Try it out? You know, see how it goes? Learn from it, then do it all again, like that. And I think our best teachers are really quick in that cycle of inquiry around their own practice. 

Yeah. And as you're saying that about, you know, this big shift is coming. One of the last questions I’ve got for you is, are all the districts keeping up at the same pace? Or are you finding districts are collaborating with each other and everybody's sort of playing to the same tune? 

I do find that British Columbia has, maybe through its history, has a unique way of being very networked. What I find is, other places in the Canada or the US, they don't have that sort of networking culture like we do. What I see is, I see teachers network together and you know, the network or performance based schools, which is something you talked about on recent podcasts or other networks like that, I find schools network together. And then I find districts that work together. I can tell you, we have a lot in common with Delta, and with Saanich, and some others. I know that we have things that we're connected to. And then what I think the challenge is for provinces is the best jurisdictions are like BC should be networked to Ontario, to Finland to Singapore. Because you blow it up at each level, you want to have teachers networked together, but right to the whole system's level, you want to have systems network together. And so I think there is that culture of sort of mutual support in BC that's a little different. I don't view other school districts as my competitor, they're all all of our kids. And so I don't think that's a universal truth. In all schools, I think often, you know, there's rivalries between schools or school districts, but for whatever reason, our history in BC hasn't lent itself to that. 

I love the idea of the idea of the global network and connecting overseas as well. So that being said, are there any conferences within BC that you would recommend to any teachers that are listening that you've frequented?

So what do I, what do I like? I would say, maybe I should talk about a couple experts, so people I'm connected to, they're interesting. You know, we talked about outdoor learning. And there's someone names Megan Zeny, right now in BC, who's doing some really interesting work around around getting kids outside and in the elementary ages that I think is first class work around technology in the digital space. I'm really interested in George Couros. He's not from BC, but there's a lot of work out here. Dean Sharansky, he does a lot of work with us in West Vancouver, I'm really interested in some of his work as well. The other person who's interested me in the last year, around the diversity, equity and inclusivity work is Alden Habacon. And so his work around how we bring that to life in our school district as well has been really interesting.  

So yeah, my last question would be, and you just you just mentioned it, then, are we seeing a move towards more balance with some outdoor learning, because we've spent so much time on the screens in COVID pandemic lockdown. And now, of course, technology is huge in the classroom, are we seeing a bit of a shift that with kids getting access to outdoor learning?

The two things I'm most excited about right now, are outdoor learning and technology. And people go well, those are like the opposite ends of the spectrum, how can you be excited about both those things at once, but I actually think they are, they are complementary to each other. Because at the one time, we are connecting kids digitally more than ever, and we’re doing things that weren't possible without. At the other time, what I'm most excited about is we're getting kids outside and connecting them to the earth. And so whether that's in through urban agriculture, outdoor learning spaces, you know, we’re getting kids outside, touching the ground, you know, and spending big chunks of time out there having outdoor learning experiences. That is super powerful. And so we have these two things happening together. And I'm just excited about how there's actually a real interplay, I think, and that you don't have to be on the one team that says ‘we got to get kids outside’ or the other team that says ‘we got to get kids on computers’. We actually want kids to be able to do both well. Coming out of the pandemic, we kept saying that for health reasons, we need kids outside and you don't want kids in the building. So you'll move the learning outside. And the other thing we said was that well, let's take advantage of all these digital tools. And so my real hope as we emerge from the pandemic, is that we don't lose those tenants that we've been really embracing over the last few years. 

Chris, it's been so fun talking to you and hearing more about your perspective in terms of technology in the classroom. And I love that you ended on the outdoor piece, which is a big part of my history and education. So yeah, thank you so much. 

Well, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

Thanks for joining us on the 21st-Century Teacher, and we look forward to seeing you next time. Please do subscribe so you don't miss out on the next show. And also don't forget to check out our fantastic online learning platform, which is liveit.earth. Thanks again and we'll see you soon.